On their podcast, Jonathan Frakes, Brent Spiner and Ron Perlman revisit Star Trek: Nemesis and place much of the blame for the film’s disappointments on director Stuart Baird—calling him an acclaimed editor who, in their view, lacked the temperament to lead a
When Star Trek: Nemesis landed in 2002 and later drew the verdict many fans still repeat—“bomb” at Paramount, panned by critics and fans—there were plenty of explanations swirling around the disappointing fourth feature film from Star Trek: The Next Generation.
Now, years later, the movie’s own cast is sharpening one particular target.
Jonathan Frakes. who directed the previous two Star Trek films. and Brent Spiner. who plays Data. used their new podcast Dropping Names with special guest Ron Perlman (who played the Reman viceroy) to go back over what went wrong. Perlman’s part is the fiercest: he says the cast believed director Stuart Baird was ill-fitted to direct what ended up being the pivotal—and ultimately disappointing—final film in the TNG movie saga.
The conversation started with a detail the hosts have already emphasized: their podcast isn’t a Star Trek podcast. Still, the pattern of guests with Trek ties has been hard to miss. Outside of Seth MacFarlane. each guest so far has worked on Star Trek: Nemesis: LeVar Burton was their first guest. then John Logan. and most recently Perlman.
Perlman said the cast noticed something early about Baird’s approach. In his words, the director “had no people skills whatsoever.” He also described Baird as someone brought in due to studio favors rather than directorial instincts.
“He was not a director, he was a f—ing editor that the studio owed a favor to,” Perlman said. “Because he saved a lot of their turkeys. They would bring him in when they had a turkey, and he would recut it and turn it watchable. So he was a very talented editor, but he was not a director… He’s not a filmmaker. [It’s] that attitude, like, ‘anybody can do this, you know, let’s just give it to that guy.’”.
Spiner agreed with Perlman’s bottom line. saying Baird was “not a director.” Frakes. though. brought nuance without stepping back from the criticism. He praised Baird’s track record as an editor. describing it as “world class.” The resume he cited includes Superman and Lethal Weapon before Nemesis. and then Casino Royale and Skyfall after it—along with a reunion with John Logan.
But the cast’s complaints weren’t about credits. They were about the way Baird treated the people who were supposed to make the film work.
Frakes said the trouble signs were there before production even fully tightened. He recalled that Baird turned down offers to sit down and talk about their characters and the franchise in general.
“Patrick and I all offered to have lunch with him, because we’d done 182 episodes and three movies together. I said, ‘Is there anything we can do to help you?’ He was not interested in talking to us at all about how we rolled. Talk about a family, because we rolled as a family.”
From there, Frakes added a more specific moment from filming. After leaving him and Perlman waiting during the production of a stunt on the catwalk while they discussed a change to the scene. Frakes said Baird also left them hanging for an extended period. And during that break, Perlman delivered a line Frakes still seems to hear when he talks about it.
“And Ron swings over and he whispers in my ear, ‘We’re too old to be action heroes,’” Frakes said.
Perlman and Spiner also tied the friction to how performers were treated and how choices landed on screen. The group discussed Nemesis as the “breakout” role for a young Tom Hardy. with Perlman saying “he was so sweet. and so deferential.” Spiner. meanwhile. said Hardy was “not treated well” by Baird.
The cast’s blame is arriving in a wider landscape where Nemesis already carries a heavy reputation. The film was the fourth feature for the Next Generation crew and their final big screen voyage. It was the last one in the Trek film franchise until rebooted six years later by J.J. Abrams with Chris Pine and crew.
When the hosts discussed the movie itself. the cast and conversation returned to the work’s awkward landing with specifics intact: Nemesis brought back the cast again; Riker and Troi got married; the visual effects rebounded from Insurrection; and the film placed the stars in action beats that feel. as Perlman alluded to. a bit out of sync with their ages.
The conversation also pointed to the story’s sharper criticisms. There’s the “violation” that the viceroy does to Troi—one that pays off later when the counselor guides the Enterprise’s targeting system to find the cloaked ship. a power “we’d never seen from Betazoids.” The moment gets “somewhat redeemed” in the series finale of Star Trek: Picard. though the speaker added. “I digress.”.
At the heart of the biggest critique is the film’s message, described as confusing. The question raised in the discussion is simple: why couldn’t Shinzon aspire to be more than he was?. The conversation asks whether he should be aspiring to be a leader for the Remans. or whether the film leans into a darker worldview—that people are purely products of their environment with no hope of escaping or defining their own values.
The discussion also touched on Data’s death. described as heroic but also “a little sudden.” Logan’s comment earlier this year—that the expectation was Data would come back. presumably through B-4—was cited as a major “what if.” The speaker said that if the creative team had gotten to do another movie. Data’s death might not have amounted to much.
They revisited the deleted scenes too. Those moments are described as charming. including a quick chat with Wesley Crusher. whimsical moments in the mess hall with B-4. a scene where Picard and Data share a glass of wine. another where Worf and Geordi go through Data’s belongings. and a gag intro to Picard’s new first officer. But the overall argument in the conversation is that adding them wouldn’t fix the muddled theme or adjust the action in a way that would fully rescue the film.
Even outside story and direction. one detail landed with a kind of unintended bluntness for viewers: production errors that can distract if you notice them. The conversation says the film was made with real monitors showing the computer images the characters were looking at. and that there are instances where viewers can see reflected green screen.
For some, the movie still has its pull. The speaker said it’s comforting knowing it wasn’t the final time Next Generation fans would see the cast. When Nemesis comes on. the parts that resonate most—briefing scenes. Picard and Data talking about life (as well as Geordi and Data). and the goodbye between Picard and Riker—are described as “just right.”.
The conversation ends on the question fans keep returning to: what do people think of Nemesis as it heads toward its 25th anniversary next winter?
The full conversation with Spiner, Frakes and Perlman is available, alongside discussion that also touches on how Perlman’s new studio will get more movies made. And for anyone still staying inside the franchise, the hosts point readers toward more Star Trek coverage through TrekMovie.com.
Star Trek: Nemesis Stuart Baird Jonathan Frakes Brent Spiner Ron Perlman Dropping Names Tom Hardy LeVar Burton John Logan Patrick Stewart Data Reman viceroy