Episode Transcript
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Nimah Gobir: You’re listening to MindShift, where we explore the future of learning and how we raise our kids. I’m Nimah Gobir
Nimah Gobir: Our story begins in a classroom. But probably not the kind you’re used to. Definitely not the kind I’m used to.
Nimah Gobir: In this high school classroom, there are desks with needles, tourniquets, and blood vials. 10 students from Summit Tahoma high school in San Jose gather around a table at the front of the room .
Tracy Lowe: Everyone’s here for phlebotomy. Like everyone’s here in the same place, everyone’s for the same reason. We’re all taking phlebotomy.
Nimah Gobir: Meaning drawing blood, And it is taught by Tracy Lowe.
Tracy Lowe: It’s my job and my opportunity and it’s really my pleasure to be able to instruct this class for you. [00:19:08][5.2]
Nimah Gobir: Here Tracy leans forward to tap the desk in front of her for emphasis
Tracy Lowe: You guys are in a phlebotomy class, which means we are going to start phlebotomy today.
Nimah Gobir: Students look on for their first demonstration. Tracy will walk them through how to draw blood. She starts by making sure everything is exactly where she needs it.
Tracy Lowe: We have these caddies here, and we supply you with the equipment that you’ll need for the day. [00:16:31][6.0]
Nimah Gobir: I take a peek into the caddy. It has a bunch of tubes with colored caps and alcohol wipes, and several capped needles.
Tracy Lowe: All right. Um, can I draw someone’s blood?
Nimah Gobir: It’s the first day of a two week long course. But a brave soul raises his hand and walks to the front.
Tracy Lowe: All right, can he sit in your seat? and I’m going to show you guys so come on up come on up, gather around. I’m gonna show you guys the…
Nimah Gobir: Tracy demonstrates the way she wants her students to start: warm, confident, and clear. She introduces herself, states her intention and asks for consent all in a matter of seconds.
Tracy Lowe: Hi, my name’s Tracey. I’m here from the lab. Do you mind if I draw your blood? Yes. OK, cool. Which arm do you want to use?
Nimah Gobir: The volunteer says either arm is fine. And after Tracy takes a look at both arms she lays the right one on top of the sterile surface..
Tracy Lowe: Alright. I’m going to get everything set up. I’m gonna get my gloves on. So sanitize my hands, get my glove on. I’m getting everything I need. We use alcohol wipes…
Nimah Gobir: Tracy takes out an alcohol wipe, needle, tape with a little cotton ball stuck to it, and a tourniquet…
Tracy Lowe: The tourniquet goes on tight enough to restrict the venous access. It helps to plump the veins up. And a good tourniquet is gonna be your number one asset.
Nimah Gobir: She ties it snugly around his forearm. And tells students where the needle will go.
Tracy Lowe: Typically we’re going to try and draw here in what’s called the antecubital region which is right here. Nimah Gobir: She points to an area on the inside of the elbow.
Tracy Lowe: When you’re feeling for a vein. I want you not to be shy. You’ve got to mush your finger and we call it palpating, okay?
Nimah Gobir: She presses at the arm with gloved fingertips.
Tracy Lowe: So we’re going to palpate for the vein by pushing your finger in. Once you feel the vein, I want to you to commit to the entire area.
Nimah Gobir: She finds what she’s looking for AND she starts tapping lightly
Tracy Lowe: The veins should feel like you have like a water balloon and you’re tapping it. It’s gonna like spring back at you. It’s like bouncy and springy and spongy.
Tracy Lowe: I’m just going to take my wipe and wipe down. Throw that out. Alcohol and trash goes in there.
Nimah Gobir: Tracy picks up her needle, and the whole class seems to move in a bit to get a better look.
Tracy Lowe: I’m going to do this at a 30 degree angle and 30 degrees means I’m going to be able to go in like this and kind of arrive at where these fingers are touching on the patient’s skin.
Nimah Gobir: When the needle first goes in nothing happens. That’s normal. Tracy adjusts.
Tracy Lowe: You’re like oh my gosh what do I do I’ll tell you what you do you take your finger and you feel gently where’s the vein right there over there so what I need to do is come back just like that see how easy that was to it up.
Nimah Gobir: She repositions the needle. All at once, the tube that was attached to the needle starts to fill up with dark red blood
Tracy Lowe: I’m going to switch out my tube by putting a finger here to balance it, pull that off, and I put my second tube on there. [00:24:19][9.1]
Nimah Gobir: One of the students faints. They get her seated in a chair. She’s a little shaken, but okay. And this happens.The sight of blood can make people woozy. But it’s also a reminder: this is real.
Nimah Gobir: This isn’t a classroom where they talk about doing things — they actually do them. And starting on this first day they’ll begin drawing blood themselves.
Angie Johnson: My name is Angela. You can call me Angie. You don’t have to call me instructor Angie. That’s a long title.
Nimah Gobir: Angie is one of the clinical instructors that will work with students on their blood draws.
Angie Johnson: I am an EMT. I’ve been an EMT since 2008. I decided to go back to phlebotomy school years ago to increase my value. To be an emergency room technician so then I took a phlebotomy. I did a phlebotomy then I became a phlebotomy lab instructor.
Nimah Gobir: The class is still buzzing from what just happened.
Angie Johnson: Welcome to the real world of phlebotomy school.
Angie Johnson: OK, so of course, now everybody’s like, OMG, right? It happens. Prime example, it can happen just like that when you’re working.
Angie Johnson: Where are the tourniquets? Let’s go. Let’s practice those first because we can’t draw a thing without one. So everybody grab a blue tourniquet…
Nimah Gobir: Each student grabs a stretchy blue tourniquet and watches Angie demonstrate how to tie it.
Angie Johnson: You bring it even enough, you grab with this hand, You pull, and you let go.. Yeah, I made that look really easy, right? I know. So everybody grab a partner…and let’s do that first.
Nimah Gobir: They pair up and practice tying tourniquets around each other’s arms.They know from watching Tracy that this small step makes everything else possible. We’ll check back in on their progress later.
Nimah Gobir: In this phlebotomy course students are handling materials, practicing, and messing up. This all falls under what is called career and technical education – known as CTE.
Thomas Torre Gibney: CTE is a remarkably common feature of American high schools.
Nimah Gobir: Thomas Torre Gibney works at west ed, a research organization. He studies career and technical education for high schoolers
Thomas Torre Gibney: So CTE as an elective course can range from anything from intro to agricultural science, to intro to manufacturing, to more advanced coursework that might be applied in a specific program of study, like phlebotomy or networking in an information technology program of studies
Nimah Gobir: Most CTE programs are designed around specific industries.
Thomas Torre Gibney: And the purpose of this programming is to expose students to relevant hands-on real world work in typically like an applied setting.
Nimah Gobir: And in many cases—like this phlebotomy class—these programs are built directly into the school day.
Nimah Gobir: CTE itself has been changing. And lately, it’s been getting more attention
Thomas Torre Gibney: So nowadays what we’re seeing is a real public debate around the value of higher education.
Thomas Torre Gibney: Normal American families are asking hard questions about whether taking on the debt to attain a college degree is worth it in the long term.
Nimah Gobir: Especially as people become more scared of AI taking jobs.Research still shows that having a college degree pays off,
Thomas Torre Gibney: Students who have a college degree tend to outperform their peers in the labor market. They have higher lifetime average earnings compared to students who only have a high school diploma.
Nimah Gobir: But CTE doesn’t have to be an alternative to college.
Thomas Torre Gibney: CTE has historically suffered from a stigma. Historically we’ve seen that students who were considered to be quote-unquote not college material would disproportionately be routed into these programs in high school.
Nimah Gobir: That history still shapes how people think about CTE today. And it’s something educators, researchers, and policymakers are actively trying to undo.
Nimah Gobir: One way educators are trying to bridge that divide is through something called stackable credentials.These are certifications that build on one another
Thomas Torre Gibney: So a lot of states are trying to think deeply about what do stackable credentials look like such that students could have on ramps and off ramps into their post-secondary study as it suits their life.
Nimah Gobir: Here’s what that can look like.
Thomas Torre Gibney: Maybe a student concentrates in a carpentry program of study in high school and due to, you know, financial concerns they might opt to go directly into the labor market right out of high school.
Thomas Torre Gibney: They need to earn money instead of taking on debt and going into higher education program. Well, the idea is that let’s say that student, you know, takes part in an apprenticeship, they get some certification that has value in the labor market. At a later time in their life they may decide to go back to school and go in a different direction or build on that credential and say, okay, you know, actually, I really want to be a general contractor.
Thomas Torre Gibney: So I’d like to go on and get a bachelor’s degree in construction management, for example.
Nimah Gobir: In other words: a student meets the needs of their life in the moment. Goes to work, build experience and later return to school when it makes sense.
Nimah Gobir: Devonna Alatorre is in charge of Summit Tahoma High School’ s CTE programs—that’s where the students from the phlebotomy class go.
Devonna Alatorre: My focus is basically connecting student learning with life beyond high school.
Nimah Gobir: This is the school’s first year sending students off-campus for phlebotomy training.
Devonna Alatorre: It gives students an opportunity to have like a concrete entryway into healthcare, which as we know is like a field with strong demand. It gives them a certification pathway and an opportunity to continue learning essentially.
Nimah Gobir: Devonna doesn’t see CTE and college as opposite pathways
Devonna Alatorre: Honestly, we see them as connected and critical for all students as they make decisions around their life after high school.
Nimah Gobir: For some students, phlebotomy might be the job they stick with for their whole career. For others, it’s a first step.
Devonna Alatorre: Something like Phlebotomy doesn’t close doors or narrow the pathway for them, it is opening up opportunities for them. And students are gaining context for what they’re studying, motivation for why academics matter, and sometimes even a clearer sense of purpose with these types of opportunities.
Nimah Gobir: The goal isn’t necessarily to produce lifelong phlebotomists. It’s to send students forward with skills, habits, and a clearer sense of themselves.
Devonna Alatorre: And our goal is to prepare them for life and not just focusing on one definition of success.
Nimah Gobir: We’re going to take a short break. And when we get back we’ll see what the students are up to
Nimah Gobir: The blood draws might be the most dramatic part of this program, but there’s more to the job. To do phlebotomy, you also have to handle patients. Tracy the phlebotomy instructor talks to the students about that.
Tracy Lowe: Every patient comes with a unique experience. Every patient comes a unique backstory. Every patient has a unique set of feelings about getting their blood drawn.
Tracy Lowe: I will also say this. Most patients don’t love it.
Nimah Gobir: She says that if you do phlebotomy you’ll be performing blood draws on people of a variety of ages, backgrounds and relationship to healthcare. And some of these people are getting their blood drawn because they want answers about their health. She writes some stats on the whiteboard.
Tracy Lowe: 50 to 70% of all of the diagnosis, stems from the results of the blood draw, which is a huge amount of emphasis put on the results of the blood.
Tracy Lowe: So even though we have quick interactions with the patient, it counts for a lot, like, it’s weighted very heavily.
Nimah Gobir: You might remember how Tracy began the very first demonstration: by introducing herself and asking permission.
Tracy Lowe: It really begins and ends with tell me your name, tell me you did a birth, let’s take a look at your arm.
Nimah Gobir: Even though it is quick and they might see 50 different people that day. Each patient needs to be treated like the most important person.
Tracy Lowe: Every patient in front you has the need to have your exceptional and undivided attention on them.
Nimah Gobir: That means professionalism. Students should wear their badges, pronounce names correctly and use the right gender pronouns.
Tracy Lowe: The engagement that you have with the patient can really be the difference with them feeling like, hey, I felt seen this time, I heard this time. I felt like I was acknowledged as a person, as an individual.
Tracy Lowe: You guys get to be the changing face of health care.
Nimah Gobir: When I return towards the end of their two week program, students are more comfortable.They’ve been drawing each others blood for about 10 days. Some have small bruises called hematomas from early mistakes.
Nimah Gobir: I’m amazed by how close they’ve become to each other. They’re teenagers, so their friend groups are still intact, but this class has brought them physically close in a different way: They know each other’s veins.
Olivia: Alyssa’s arm is pretty good. Some hands are better, like Kai’s hands, I was able to get hers.
Nimah Gobir: Olivia is a 17 year old senior. She was actually able to have a successful draw on her first day, which is pretty rare.
Olivia: We came in from lunch, she’s talking, she was like, okay, who’s ready to do blood draw? So I’m like, ooh. I did draw the first. I was the only student to draw on the day with Angie.
Nimah Gobir: By now, she’s confident.So when I ask her if she’s comfortable drawing my blood. She gives me a little shrug and says okay.
Olivia: Okay, you want to sit down?
Nimah Gobir: She treats me like a real patient.
Olivia: Hi, my name’s Olivia. I’ll be your phlebotomist today. Could I get blood?
Me: Yes, you may. Thank you. Thanks for asking. Of course.
Olivia: Um, can I get your name and date of birth?
Nimah Gobir: I gave it. I’m a Saittarius
Olivia: Do you, are you prone to fainting when getting blood drawn?
Me: No, fortunately not.
Nimah Gobir: As she preps her station. she makes some small talk with me about my work—just like at my doctor’s office.
Olivia: I’m just going to check your veins right now. I’m going to put the tourniquet on and then I’ll do some palpating.
Nimah Gobir: She’s feeling for a bounce like they’re been taught.
Olivia: So you have a vein right here going upward. It’s decently long. So I’ll do this arm. I want you to put your, put your fist, and you’re going to put it underneath. So you can keep your arm nice and straight.
Nimah Gobir: A small pinch tells me she’s put the needle in but I’m looking away trying to be as still as possible.
Olivia: You okay?
Nimah Gobir: Yeah.
Nimah Gobir: And …nothing happens.
Olivia: I think it rolled, oddly enough.
Nimah Gobir: A rolled vein just means it moved—something that happens more often than you’d think.
Nimah Gobir: She calls over Angie.
Olivia: Angie?
Olivia: I think she rolled. I don’t know if you can feel it.
Angie Johnson: This is great. This is this is great for you because then you say, you know, I can’t get it. I’m sorry you’re vein rolled…
Olivia: I’m sorry, your vein rolled over. Can I see your other arm?
Nimah Gobir: Take two. I roll up my other sleeve and position my arm on the table. When Oliva identifies the vein in this arms she lets me know that it looks a little smaller, but she’s going to give it a shot.
Olivia: There we go.
Nimah Gobir: Wow. Olivia! Okayyy!
Nimah Gobir: I watch my blood start to fill the tube—dark red, faster than I expect. After she tapes a cotton ball to my arm, she hands me my sealed tube of blood
Olivia: And then your blood is really warm. It’s really warm as soon as it comes out your body it’s really warm.
Nimah Gobir:It’s so creepy.
Nimah Gobir: After taking this two week course students can decide to take a certification exam.Those who pass the exam and want to continue can return here for an externship. Which means they’ll come back to this facility to practice blood draws until they fulfill their requirement.
Nimah Gobir: Olivia plans to continue
Olivia: I’m quite enjoying the class.
Nimah Gobir: For her, phlebotomy is part of her bigger career goals.
Olivia: I decided to do this program because I know for sure I want be a nurse, so trying to work towards that. And I think this will help me get there.
Nimah Gobir: This phlebotomy class has given students like Olivia confidence, skills, and momentum before they ever set foot in a college lecture hall. For other students, the takeaway is different. Some realize that blood, needles, and clinical settings aren’t for them. All of that is valuable information. changing your mind can be part of the point—students still leave with transferable skills and a clearer sense of what kinds of work fit them best.
The exposure lends itself to clarity. By the time they graduate high school, they won’t just be guessing about what fields they’re interested in pursuing. They’ll have evidence.