Kaia Gerber on ‘The Shards’ Finale’s Surprising Killer Suspects and Her Shelley Duvall Moment

[This story contains MAJOR spoilers from The Shards finale, “Stairway to Heaven.”]

The Shards just pointed its finger at everyone.

After nine episodes of a serial killer dubbed “The Trawler” terrorizing Los Angeles in 1981, the FX adaptation of Bret Easton Ellis‘ classic novel of the same name, from Ryan Murphy, ended its first season by putting its main characters in a room to be questioned by police, who deem them all suspects.

In the room are obvious options Bret (Igby Rigney) and Robert (Homer Gere), as well as Debbie (Hayes Warner) and her mother (Evan Rachel Wood), Steven (Jordan Roth), Thom (Graham Campbell), Ryan (Daniel Dale), and even Susan, played by Kaia Gerber.

Gerber admits that queen-bee high schooler Susan possibly being the serial killer — and/or the person who threw Debbie’s dad, Terry (Wes Bentley), off a balcony to his death, also in the finale — is surprising. But she admits that it is a possibility.

“We know it’s one of us,” she tells The Hollywood Reporter of the ending.

The book The Shards never explicitly revealed the identity of The Trawler, but Gerber is positive the show will by its end. Murphy previously told THR that he and Ellis planned for three or four seasons of the series, and this finale brings the adaptation up to about one-third of the book’s story. With so much room left to cover, everyone is an option in the murder-mystery whodunnit element of the series, even Susan. “It’s hard for me to empathize with Susan in certain moments — the relentless winning is infuriating. I like that everyone is very complicated and layered in their own ways,” she says.

Below, Gerber dives into the cliffhanger ending — including her “Shelley Duvall moment” in the finale and who she thinks attacked her — and shares her theories on the killer and what she hopes to explore if The Shards is indeed renewed for a second season. The possibilities open up, as Murphy’s take has the potential to veer even more from the book: “The book is 100 percent from Bret’s POV. As one of the characters who isn’t Bret, I appreciate that we’re getting to know Susan outside of Bret’s idea of who she is in relation to him,” she says.

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I spoke with Ryan Murphy at the beginning of The Shards. You two, of course, knew each other coming into this, and he said that he and Bret Easton Ellis immediately thought of you for the role of Susan. How did you get the call?

I worked with Ryan before — he gave me my first professional acting job [on American Horror Story season 10]. I’ve always felt, in such a large way, that he started my career and gave me an opportunity before anyone else did. I always wanted to work with him again. I’m such a fan.

Then I met Bret [Easton Ellis] right around the time The Shards [book] was coming out — being a massive fan of his, I was like, “I just want to tell you, I’ve read everything you’ve ever written, and I’m reading The Shards right now. I think the amount of love you have for these characters, and particularly the female characters, you can see it and feel it in the writing, and I just wanted to say that.” And he was like, “You are Susan.” I was like, “I’m nothing like Susan.” He was like, “I don’t know what we’re doing with it” — it wasn’t even in Ryan’s hands yet; this was like four years ago.

Then Ryan called me last February, and when you get a call from Ryan Murphy, you drop everything — like, you run. I was in rehearsal for a play, literally rehearsing a scene, and I was like, “Guys, so sorry. I have to step out.” He was like, “Hey, I don’t know if you know this book, The Shards, but I’m making it and Bret and I agree you should play Susan.” I was like, “Okay. Literally whatever you want!” I was so honored, but I also was like, “I don’t know what quality of mine you think is right for Susan.”

So I spent the next six months trying to figure out why I reminded them of Susan, and what I should bring to set. Then I met the rest of the cast and saw how they all had this inexplicable essence that you can’t really articulate that made them so right for their role — even people who weren’t like their characters, there was just some quality about everyone. So it took some of the pressure off because I was like, “Well, maybe it is something I can’t really explain and just something about me.” I felt a little less pressure going in after meeting everyone else.

Now, after having played Susan, do you see a more of what they saw in you for the role?

Yeah. The great thing about working with Ryan is that he can see qualities in everyone that we can’t always see in ourselves, and then he writes to amplify that and bring everyone to extremes. So you get to explore places of yourself previously unexplored. As we were filming, I was like, “I don’t know if they’re writing to me or if I’m starting to become more like Susan,” but as the series progressed, and as we got new scripts, I felt closer to Susan. When you spend a long enough time playing someone, you can’t help but love them and feel protective over them and empathize with them. That made it helpful in the later episodes, when things get more intense. It’s hard to love a stranger who does something out of character. But suddenly, you have spent enough time with someone and nothing they could do would make me change my love for them, and I really felt that way about Susan. That helped with the more intense scenes.

These are all characters who push the likability factor, in terms of who we should be rooting for or believing. But Susan seems to be the least likely killer of the group. Do you agree?

I agree with you there! But really, we’re like: it could be any of us.

Well, you are in the room in the end as a suspect.

Yes, we know it’s one of us. But I think it really depends. Hayes and I got so close, and Graham and I got so close and. When I was filming scenes with Hayes or Graham where we were fighting, it was really challenging. I was like, “You know what? This is tough.” It’s hard for me to empathize with Susan in certain moments — the relentless winning is infuriating. Especially because I care about Debbie and Hayes, so I ike that there everyone is very complicated and layered in their own ways.

Ryan told me that when casting you and your co-star Homer Gere, and knowing each of your famous parents (iconic exes Cindy Crawford and Richerd Gere), that he had conversations with all of you, saying, “People are obviously going to point this out.” He told me he would not have moved forward if all of you weren’t on board. Did you have concerns?

From the beginning, he included me. It felt really nice to be included. I hadn’t met Homer before we started filming. I’d seen him in a short film, and I thought he was really good. But I didn’t know him. As soon as we started filming, I felt, “Homer just happened to be the right person for this role.” Regardless of our history or our parents’ history, the incredible and relieving thing is that as soon as we started filming, Homer was perfect for this role. And it would not have been fair or right if it went to somebody else just to avoid all the other stuff that goes with it, which really is just noise and not as significant, I think, as the work.

It’s in our best interest to make Ryan’s version of the show and make the version of the show in his mind. If we ever felt strange about something, Ryan was always an open door, so Homer and I felt really comfortable going to Ryan with any questions or concerns. He’s also dealt with being perceived at a very large scale for so long and he has a really good relationship to that and great advice, and he’s very generous about that advice. He’s been such a guiding force for me and so helpful. I call him all the time. I called him an hour before the premiere in New York to be like, “What do I wear? I’m panicking and I’m scared.” Things big and small, he’s always there, which is so helpful.

Did your Vogue interview feel like a therapy session? You and Homer were each open and honest about everything from your own personal relationship with Hollywood, your body and with the press, to you and Homer talking about some of your fears going into this.

It was so sweet because I told Homer what I talked about a little, but after reading it, I was like, “I think that Rob [Haskell, writer] had the same effect on both of us.” He’s very disarming, and he’s also a psychiatrist. So very quickly, I forgot that I was doing the interview, which could be a very scary thing, and probably scary to hear for a publicist. (Laughs.) But it was clear to me that he’s a very kind person who doesn’t take vulnerability for granted. I trusted that he would handle it with care, and I really think he did. Both Homer and I were like, “He has a way of getting you to open up.” I was grateful that he treated that with respect and kindness. It didn’t feel too exposing, which I was grateful for.

I enjoyed reading about how different Susan’s high school experiences were in The Shards from yours. She’s the prom queen who, like you said, constantly wins. What have you enjoyed living out through Susan that you never got to experience yourself?

All of it. I wanted to be class president very badly, and I lost the election tragically. So it was really fun to film those scenes where I was giving speeches or addressing the student body — and you’re fully aware that the background [actors] are being paid. They were doing their job well because there were moments where I genuinely believed they were clapping for me, and not for the sake of the scene, which I realize they were. (Laughs.) I think I would never want to go back to high school, but it was fun to exist in that time, and be that age with the freedom and carelessness that especially opens the season. We had so much fun filming those first few episodes, because it was a lot about young teenage freedom and excess and access.

Ryan and Bret hope to do three or four seasons. Based on where season one ends, that seems to be the plan, because the show gets through about one third of the book.

Yes, as a fan of a book, there’s so much in the book that that we didn’t get to cover in season one. So I’m really hoping we’ll get to film [more]. One of the most iconic scenes from the novel is the balcony fight between Bret and Robert. Then there’s Palm Springs… There’s so much in the book we didn’t get to cover, so hopefully the plan is to get to go back and do more.

Because of that expansion, Ryan has added in new storylines, characters and entire episodes (“Dance Off!”) not from the book. Theoretically, the entire ending could go differently?

That’s the exciting part. I read the book so many times before we were even making the thing, and then when I knew we were making it, I read it even more, and highlighted it. I will say that the first two episodes, which were co-written by Bret, are very true to the adaptation. The book is 100 percent from Bret’s POV. You don’t see anything Bret hasn’t himself witnessed or imagined happened. Whereas in our show, we’re following all these different characters, even when Bret is not present. Suddenly, there are these whole new worlds. I appreciated as one of the characters who isn’t Bret that we’re getting to know Susan outside of Bret’s idea of who she is in relation to him.

“Dance Off!” was completely a Ryan brainchild, which was so fun to film, along with “Really Rhonda” and getting all of these other things to explore to expand on the world that Bret so genius-ly created.

The attack that Susan experiences in the finale is also different, because in the book, Thom (Campbell) and her are attacked together by the possible killer.

Yes. That was a challenge for me because I was really trying to figure out: Is it Thom? Or is it not Thom?

What do you think now?

When we filmed it, I was so certain it wasn’t Thom. Mainly because Graham wasn’t there. We filmed my whole attack with the incredible stunt guy, Troy Brown, who I actually have known since I was 12 years old, so it was very nice to have a familiar face — who is trying to stab me to death. If you’re going to be in that situation, it’s lovely when it’s someone that you know. I want to shout out to Troy for really selling that kick, because I don’t think I would have been able to fight someone off in that way.

We filmed it, and I screamed in the bathroom for a lot longer. We would reset from there, and then Graham got there later in the day to barge in. So I think because I screamed for a long time, I was like, “There really is time for Thom to have come in.”

But then when I watched the finale, I was like, “I think it might be Thom, actually!” And when we walk out and look for the body and don’t see it, then I was like, “I think maybe it is Thom.” So, the jury is still out, but I convinced myself that it was Thom for the sake of Susan then accusing Thom.

I’m thinking back to your American Horror Story and American Horror Stories seasons, but this feels like your most scream-queen moment?

This was a true horror moment. Even in the script, it said, “Her Shelley Duvall moment.” It really was a direct reference to The Shining, which is funny, because I have on my wall [flipping the camera to show her wall] a signed Shelley Duvall [poster from The Shining]. It’s one of my favorite performances and one of my favorite films, so when that was very clear that we were referencing that, I was really excited and also terrified. I was like, “I’ll never reach what Shelley did, but at least I know what we’re aiming for and the level of terror.” So this was probably the most scream queens moment I’ve gotten to have.

How many times did you do the scream?

We did the scene around 20 to 30 times. We would do it from the very beginning until Graham would come in and I’d end screaming in the bathroom, hyperventilating. Then we’d reset, which is where I’m fully asleep and get woken up by the phone. So getting your heart rate back down in the span of 20 seconds while they reset, and getting the tears out of my eyes to then be in a very peaceful, cozy sleep mode was the most challenging part. Just calming my nervous system as we were resetting from that screaming, hyperventilating in the bathroom moment.

The finale ends with Terry’s (Wes Bentley’s) murder, as well as everyone being a suspect for The Trawler. Were you surprised that Susan is a suspect in both scenarios, and have you landed on one guess for who The Trawler serial killer is?

I don’t know who did it, but I have my suspicion, for sure. And it’s not an obvious one. For the opening to episode nine, which I think is one of the greatest finale openings ever, I went first in pushing Terry off the balcony. Wes [Bentley] is such a great guy; such a kind, incredible person, which is ironic that he always plays these villainous characters when there’s nothing villainous about him. I don’t think there’s a mean bone in his body.

I hadn’t really interacted with Terry that much in the show. We hadn’t really done scenes together. So it was really challenging for me to feel genuine rage while looking at sweet Wes’ face, but he was so supportive and really can lock in when he has to. Right when they were rolling, he’d go into creepy Terry, which made it easier to scream at him and push him. Then as soon as the take was done, he’d be like, “Sweetie, that was great!” He made it so much easier, but it was challenging to try and come up with reason enough to push sweet Wes off a balcony.

The book never explicitly reveals who The Trawler killer is.

There are so many theories, too — I’ve read all the Reddit threads. I get a new conspiracy theory every time.

Ryan has spoken about how the AIDS epidemic was the looming killer of the time, and how The Trawler is a metaphor for that. Do you feel like the show will actually identify one of you as the killer by the end?

I think so, yes. One-hundred percent. That’s why you do a mystery and a thriller. But the wonderful thing about all of Ryan’s shows is they’re massively entertaining on a wide scale, and you don’t have to look deeper into them if you don’t want to and can still enjoy them massively. But Ryan always, always has a deeper meaning to everything. It’s always a metaphor for something, something very poignant and serious and real. You can take it at face value and enjoy it for what it is, or you can look deeper and there will always be a deeper reason for it.

Hearing Ryan talk about particularly the metaphor for AIDS and what AIDS meant to him, and that AIDS was quite literally a thing killing beautiful young people in the ‘80s; people who felt untouchable and invincible. That doesn’t have to be at the forefront of your mind while watching it, but I do think it’s really interesting to think about how that is a thing that it could be a metaphor for.

We were also sad to see that Palm Royale was canceled. Were you surprised?

I was really sad, but also, it was my longest job I ever did up until that point and to be surrounded by literally every acting comedy hero I’ve ever had? It was four years. It was like going to university. It was the most sad thinking, “Wait, am I not going to get to hang out with these people who have become my family?” But I’ve been comforted by how we’ve all stayed really close. I went up and visited Carol [Burnett] two months ago and had dinner with her. We’ve all stayed very close, so I think that’s been helpful. But we do miss it.

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The Shards is now streaming its finale and all of season one on Hulu.