On Gwyneth Paltrow’s Goop podcast, Trae Stephens—cofounder of military-tech company Anduril—tries to reconcile his business with ethics, blending drone warfare talk with Christianity, childhood fears, and wellness-friendly framing. The conversation spotlights
Trae Stephens said he does not believe “wartime profiteering is ethical, really, in any way.”
It’s a line that lands differently in Gwyneth Paltrow’s world. where “goop” sells wellness objects and conversations meant to feel intimate rather than adversarial. But on her Goop podcast last week. Stephens used that hourlong conversation to do something far more urgent than polish a brand: he tried to make his life’s work—drones and other defense technology—feel morally coherent.
Stephens cofounded Anduril, a military-tech company that has reaped billions in the weapons industry. In the same discussion. he talked at length about God. “great power conflict. ” the “male loneliness crisis. ” and what he believes Pope Francis meant when he said. during Palm Sunday. that “Jesus does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war. but rejects them.”.
At first glance, the pairing can seem surreal. Paltrow is known for products including vaginal eggs and antidepressive flower essences; Stephens sells unmanned systems. In the podcast’s glow, though, the mismatch becomes the point. Stephens brought along a catalog of what Anduril builds—unmanned submarines. border-surveillance towers. missiles. and “smart battlefield” technology—along with a mission that aims to kill “thousands more cheaply than traditional weapons might.”.
Anduril’s offerings weren’t just described in abstract terms. The conversation tied into the practical. tactical reality of the company’s products. including an Anduril Bolt drone described as a “tactical. backpackable and precision strike system. ” designed as a one-way attack drone delivering an explosive charge to the enemy. That drone appears in a training context “near the Russian border in Finland. ” at an “undisclosed training ground. ” in material associated with the report.
Paltrow appeared to take Stephens’ side—not on the business of war exactly. but on the emotional terrain that could make a person willing to talk about it at all. She sympathized with Stephens’ plan to build up America’s military arsenal because of trauma around the Cold War and 9/11. “I’ll never forget moving to New York City to start seventh grade. like in the height of the Cold War and being petrified at night that the Russians were gonna bomb us. ” she said.
Their talk also moved to family life, turning politics and technology into something more personal—and for Stephens, more fragile. He wondered whether his children could be proud of him “without feeling like they’re in this really weird twilight zone where they’re constantly having to defend with their peers what it is that their dad does for a living.”.
His work, he said, is “complicated.”
Paltrow replied by broadening the moral frame. “We as human beings are complicated. We have all kinds of gradations of light and dark. And, you know, we’re always sort of fighting with the good wolf and the bad wolf within us to a certain degree.”
For Stephens, religion wasn’t decoration. It was a test he kept returning to. He is a devout Christian, and during the podcast he brought up the Pope’s Palm Sunday homily from which the line about prayers for those who wage war is drawn.
Stephens described the shock of hearing it applied directly to his own work: “You could look at that and say, wow, what am I doing?” he said. “Like, the Pope himself is telling me that the thing that I’m doing is bad.”
Paltrow stepped in with a different kind of answer—one meant to soften the blow without breaking the premise. “You could approach it from a more mystical aspect of Christianity, like, as opposed to taking it literally,” she said. “This is just a random hypothesis. It’s occurring to me. If you were using it as a metaphor of someone who is engaged in against-ness all the time, you know. It could’ve been something more mystical or metaphorical.”.
Stephens seemed to like that opening. and his interpretation followed a familiar moral distinction: not all war. he suggested. is the same in the heart that drives it. “And so if you’re approaching it with a heart of peace. I think it’s very different on a mystical level than approaching it with a heart at war.”.
The conversation kept returning to a single question, without ever fully confronting it head-on: whether the aesthetics and vocabulary of wellness, faith, and personal struggle can make the mechanics of drone warfare less morally blunt for the people listening.
Paltrow’s presence gave Stephens a way to translate Anduril’s tech into something that fits the wellness audience she serves—one that is accustomed to thinking in terms of inner life. light and darkness. and intention. Stephens. for his part. used God-language to argue that his work could be understood differently if approached “with a heart of peace.”.
The episode aired as part of a broader shift that has been visible in both Silicon Valley and American wellness culture. The report points to the rise of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as an example of that rightward turn.
In the middle of it all. Stephens kept insisting that even if he profits from wartime industry. he does not see “wartime profiteering” as ethical. He just spent an hour with Paltrow explaining how he thinks he can reconcile what he does—drones. missiles. surveillance towers. and unmanned submarines—inside a worldview that can make “against-ness” and “peace” wrestle for the meaning of the same actions.
Gwyneth Paltrow Goop podcast Trae Stephens Anduril drones military-tech unmanned submarines border-surveillance towers smart battlefield technology Pope Francis Palm Sunday homily Jesus does not listen to prayers of those who wage war